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BarryG
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Location: Tuscaloosa
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 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: Amber's 93 SE stuttering |
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I have not yet driven the car and experienced what she has. She says that once it is warm it will stutter from a stop unless she gives it plenty of gas. Hmmm.
??
Barry
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FelipeT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Lindsey has that same problem. She is also unable to describe the problem her car has so I can have the slightest clue to what she is talking about. 
One of these days I'm going to make her take me for a ride so that I can get a feel for what the problem is.
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Joe Sanders
Cracked Windshield
Joined: 30 Aug 2001
Posts: 1916
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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In the words of the great Rick Nielsen...
"Elo Kiddies"
Well...it was brought to my attention that I've been absent from the board. I actually haven't been absent. I've just been trolling. 
You know...the girl in those kgb 542 542 commercials is hot!
Sorry...posting and watching the Comedy Channel at the same time. Okay...back on topic...
Anyway...I just haven't had much to contribute I suppose. However, this is good thread to jump back on board on because the topic is as fresh as Hardees's biscuits...at least for me it is.
I picked up a '95 PSE Wednesday. After getting a key made for it, discoving the missing key was broken off in the ignition switch, and swapping out the ignition switch, I cranked it up. The engine runs solid, but it hesitates/sputters when I give it gas. Once the engine gets over around 1500 rpm, it runs smooth. Whether the engine is hot or cold doesn't seem to be a factor.
After some sniffing around on PT, this appears to be a common problem. There seems to be a few different flavors of the problem, but just like flavors of ice cream, it's all still ice cream. <'bout to have a bowl of chocolate marshmallow here in a few  >
Cleaning the MAF appears to be the best first step. If that doesn't clear it up, then it looks like cleaning the IAC, changing the fuel filter, checking the distributor, timing, plugs, and plug wires are good next steps.
Any mechanical gurus have any input? |
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BarryG
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Location: Tuscaloosa
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the ideas. I got my first taste of working on the thing today when I attempted to replace two exhaust flange bolts. I got the right size and pitch but have not been able to get them tightened down all the way. darn thing sounds like it has a fart can attached. I gave up and told her to get it to a professional.
Turns out that to begin with it was missing a stud and the gasket was half burned off.
She has not repeated her comment about the stuttering lately
Barry
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Joe Sanders
Cracked Windshield
Joined: 30 Aug 2001
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The next thing I'm going to do on mine is see just needs to be swapped out to convert the car to power window, door lock, and mirror doors. I've read swapping the harness is the best route, but I need to see if the interior harness separates any at all or is one continous harness that runs throughout the interior (including the dash). I have a complete '94 PSE parts car that will provide me with everything I need. My only problem is not getting to involved with the black '95 PSE right now. I'm also working on what will be an extremely nice rio red '95 PGT. |
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FelipeT
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Location: Auburn Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Stuttering at part throttle sounds like an interesting problem. After giving it some thought, I don't think that it will be one of the usual suspects like plug wires or plugged cat, since that would be something that would manifest itself more at greater throttle openings.
The idea that it stutters more at part throttle makes me think that the answer is more likely to be found in somewhere in air metering, perhaps the MAF or a vacuum leak. Any idea if it has logged any codes?
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BarryG
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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No idea if it has given codes. She hasn't said.
Joe, I've pulled the harness from donor doors before. It detaches at the A pillar IIRC. Wasn't the easiest thing to do but wasn't terrible. I did it on the Rio. With that I added power door locks which I used only with the key fob. All bolt holes should already be there. That was my experience.
You have the rio, go ahead and use it.
Barry
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Joe Sanders
Cracked Windshield
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| FelipeT wrote: | | Stuttering at part throttle sounds like an interesting problem. After giving it some thought, I don't think that it will be one of the usual suspects like plug wires or plugged cat, since that would be something that would manifest itself more at greater throttle openings. |
Mine just had the spark plugs and plug wires replaced. It also appears to have recently had the CC removed. The pipe in its place is very fresh. Looks like someone started the process checking potential problems off the list.
There are a couple recent repair shop diagnosis write ups in the car that indicate the issue started about 4k miles before the car was wrecked. Funny how the mechanics' potential causes don't really match the actual problems documented on PT. There's a lot of diagnosis by "rounding up the usual suspects." Sure...I do it, but I'm not a professional in the business. I'm amazed how much of it is done by repair shops these days.
| FelipeT wrote: |
The idea that it stutters more at part throttle makes me think that the answer is more likely to be found in somewhere in air metering, perhaps the MAF or a vacuum leak. Any idea if it has logged any codes? |
Mine is not showing a CEL, but since the battery was not in the car when I bought and I've only let the car idle for a few minutes, I may not have throw a code yet.
The very first thing I'm going to do is clean the MAF sensor. Would have already done it because it seem like such a common issue, but I need to swing by HF and pick up one of those security bit sets.
You are right. I need to trace vacuum lines for obvious problems. One of these days I need to source vacuum hose in bulk.
| BarryG wrote: | | Joe, I've pulled the harness from donor doors before. It detaches at the A pillar IIRC. Wasn't the easiest thing to do but wasn't terrible. I did it on the Rio. With that I added power door locks which I used only with the key fob. All bolt holes should already be there. That was my experience. |
I think I read somewhere that all Probe chassis are pre-wired for power mirrors. Like you did, all you have to do is swap out the door harness and plug in. It's if you want power windows and door locks that presents the problem.
Yeah...the Probe door harness plugs in at the hinge post. I wish Cadillac Flleetwood and Lincoln Town Car door harnesses plugged in.
I'll probably strip down my '94 PSE parts car if I do the conversion. It's the car I'll use for the power doors if I decide to. The determining factor will be how segmented the interior harness is...if at all. |
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FelipeT
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Sanders wrote: | | Mine just had the spark plugs and plug wires replaced. It also appears to have recently had the CC removed. The pipe in its place is very fresh. Looks like someone started the process checking potential problems off the list. |
My PGT has has stuttering problems in the past. Of course, I've had the classic spark plug wire failure, since wires don't seem to last long on these cars. The thing about that is that ignition problems such as spark plug wires generally come on at higher load conditions, like trying to accelerate hard because that is when the system is being taxed most. If you are at light cruise, chances are you won't notice any stuttering, unless you let it go a really long time.
Now, I've also had a torn throttle boot. There are two bits about this. One would think that this would cause idle problems, and it can, if it is really bad. However, there is another variable that people don't often think about--engine movement. It is possible (as was in my case) that the tear in the throttle boot seals itself at idle, but will open under acceleration, sometimes even only in forward or reverse. This can make it tricky to find. Also, the thing with all vacuum leaks is that they become less significant the more the throttle is opened.
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | There are a couple recent repair shop diagnosis write ups in the car that indicate the issue started about 4k miles before the car was wrecked. Funny how the mechanics' potential causes don't really match the actual problems documented on PT. There's a lot of diagnosis by "rounding up the usual suspects." Sure...I do it, but I'm not a professional in the business. I'm amazed how much of it is done by repair shops these days. |
Mechanics often get a bad rap for being dishonest, but having worked around these guys, I really don't think that's the case. Really, from what I've seen, it's just honest incompetence. It sounds harsh, but the amount of time dedicated to study and brain power that is really required to fully understand and diagnose problems in systems as complicated as a modern automobile is much greater than that which is possessed by people to whom this kind of work appeals.
Recently, I read an opinion piece in a trade journal lamenting the challenges in technical education. One of the columnists complaints was that textbooks for these courses have to be written at something around an eighth grade reading level, but the complexity of the subject matter is such that it would take something approaching a collegiate reading level to convey.
Sadly, I think that he's right--too many of the guys working in this field are in it because they figured that it's "easy money" and probably didn't want to go to school.
Or, if you want the short version, many "professionals" don't know what they're doing. They've just memorized certain things that have worked in the past, or what others have told them will work, and most of the time that is enough to get by. As far as really understanding why or how something will work, a sad number of them have no clue. It may as well be fairy dust.
Sorry for the rant, guys!
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | Mine is not showing a CEL, but since the battery was not in the car when I bought and I've only let the car idle for a few minutes, I may not have throw a code yet. |
Give it time! Then again, I don't know that mine ever lit the CEL, but I think that it did store codes. Sometimes I'm amazed by what the OBD system will pick up on and what it won't.
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | The very first thing I'm going to do is clean the MAF sensor. Would have already done it because it seem like such a common issue, but I need to swing by HF and pick up one of those security bit sets. |
Just remember, there are specific MAF and electronic parts cleaners out there. I believe that CRC makes one of them. I can't recall anything specific at the moment, but I know that there are certain common cleaners that will cause damage.
I'm kind of surprised that you don't have an extra MAF laying about to test with, before you go through the trouble of cleaning it.
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | You are right. I need to trace vacuum lines for obvious problems. One of these days I need to source vacuum hose in bulk. |
I bought some. It's nice to have around, although I'm not thrilled with the quality of what I have. It will work, but I've seen nicer stuff. At least it was cheap.
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | I think I read somewhere that all Probe chassis are pre-wired for power mirrors. Like you did, all you have to do is swap out the door harness and plug in. It's if you want power windows and door locks that presents the problem. |
That's interesting, but it makes sense. I've so rarely seen a Probe with manual mirrors that it wouldn't make sense to make a different body harness for it.
I do wonder how much trouble adding door locks/windows will be. I imagine that if you wanted to, you could just make your own "piggy-back" harness to add it in, although it would probably just be easier to swap body harnesses, depending on how disassembled you already had the car.
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | Yeah...the Probe door harness plugs in at the hinge post. I wish Cadillac Fleetwood and Lincoln Town Car door harnesses plugged in. |
...and I wish that Porsche harnesses were as friendly, too, but that is a story for another time!
| Joe Sanders wrote: | | I'll probably strip down my '94 PSE parts car if I do the conversion. It's the car I'll use for the power doors if I decide to. The determining factor will be how segmented the interior harness is...if at all. |
You know, I should know this, but I can't recall right now. I guess that I could dig through my box-o-harnesses... But then again, looking through the EVTM might be a little easier!
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BarryG
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Double check your existing floor harness for the power door lock relay behind the passenger kick panel. If a plug-in is not there you'll have to swap that as well.
In the Rio I swapped in the door harnesses and everything in the door just plugged right in. Threaded bolt holes already present.
Barry
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BarryG
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ooohhh, now I get it.
Got to drive the car today with her as passenger. There was some ordinary/average clutch judder since I'm not used to driving her car. I said something about not knowing first hand about the stuttering she was talking about and she said I just experienced it. Nothing wrong whatsoever with how the engine runs. It is just fine.
The left quarter window now leaks water. Sorry Joe, I believe your handiwork was screwed by the errant driver who hit Amber earlier this year.
Its missing the cover panel under the glove box. Anyone got a spare? Still must get a trunk cover panel too.
Steering wheel feels slippery. Guess I'm used to the leather GT wheel.
Also noticed a slightly warped rotor.
Barry
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FelipeT
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that is certainly something that can be fixed, and even more certainly, not worth it. OK, so you could get a new clutch, and send the flywheel off to be resurfaced, but unless it's hundreds of dollars worth of annoying to her, or unless you have some other problem that would require the removal of the transmission to repair, I would just forget about it. Really, really, forget about it...
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BarryG
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Perzactly.
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Joe Sanders
Cracked Windshield
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I guess an update is past due. I cleaned the MAF sensor right after I posted last. Problem solved.
I have to agree with a comment I read on PT. It's amazing how a little bit of dirt on a little piece of wire can cause such a bit problem.
Yeah...quarter panel impacts are bad to break the quarter glass seal. About all you can do is remove it and reseal it. |
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BarryG
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm dissatisfied with the work the shop that she chose did. Harumph!
Anyway, now a hatch strut has broken. The tip covering the ball broke off. The remaining strut opens the lid just fine though.
Barry
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FelipeT
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| BarryG wrote: | I'm dissatisfied with the work the shop that she chose did. Harumph!
Anyway, now a hatch strut has broken. The tip covering the ball broke off. The remaining strut opens the lid just fine though. |
It may open, but leaving like that will probably cause some odd wear issues on the hinges in the long run.
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ntruder
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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And the day the other one fails you may just catch the hatch with your back.
Trust me, it doesn't heal very quickly.  |
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BarryG
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'll be ordering another soon. Not leaving it alone for long.
Barry
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FelipeT
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| ntruder wrote: | And the day the other one fails you may just catch the hatch with your back.
Trust me, it doesn't heal very quickly. |
Ouch!
I remember when my hatch struts were on their way out, I had the hatch open while I was loading some stuff in the back. Lindsey got in the car and closed the door. That vibration was enough for the struts to lose their grip.
Bonk! Right on the head! 
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